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#1 29-11-2010 12:45:36

kikujitoh
Membre de Soutien
Lieu: Air Force One
Date d'inscription: 07-02-2009
Messages: 4797

Deb Anlauf

Grille d'évaluation :

Like millions of people in this shocked nation, Deb Anlauf spent Tuesday morning staring in disbelief at a TV screen, watching smoke billow from the World Trade Center in New York City.
Then, at about 8:40 a.m. CDT, the largest terrorist action in this country's history hit closer to home for Anlauf and her husband, Jeff.
The couple, who moved to Colfax from Australia four months ago, were at the Sheraton National Hotel in Arlington, Va., less than two blocks from the Pentagon when Deb Anlauf saw "a sight I never imagined I'd see."
Anlauf was watching TV coverage of the Trade Center burning shortly before 9:30 a.m. when she decided to return to her 14th-floor room from another part of the hotel. Once in her room, she heard a "loud roar" and looked out the window to see what was going on.
"Suddenly I saw this plane right outside my window," Anlauf said during a telephone interview from her hotel room this morning. "You felt like you could touch it; it was that close. It was just incredible.
"Then it shot straight across from where we are and flew right into the Pentagon. It was just this huge fireball that crashed into the wall (of the Pentagon). When it hit, the whole hotel shook."
The shock waves of that same crash were felt in the Chippewa Valley, where an Eau Claire woman feared for the safety of her uncle, a Pentagon employee.
Upon learning that her beloved uncle was injured -- but not killed -- in Tuesday's terrorist attack, Kelly Cortis of Eau Claire wept with joy.
The tears burst forth after the emotion of several frantic hours hoping for the best - but fearing the worst -- about her uncle, Carl Psistner, whose job was so secret that all he ever could tell Cortis about his livelihood was that he worked for the U.S. Navy at the Pentagon.
While Cortis was unsuccessful in learning anything about her uncle's condition from a Navy intelligence hot line Tuesday, she finally heard from her grandmother in Connecticut that Psistner received 150 stitches in his face and suffered a broken arm and some burns as a result of the explosion.
"At least he's alive. That's all that matters," said Cortis, 24, who moved from Connecticut to Eau Claire in March.
The relief she felt was incredible upon learning that her only uncle - a man who raised her like a father -- had survived the attack, Cortis said.
"Oh, my God, you don't even know," she said Tuesday evening. "I'm so glad he's OK. I was so scared he was dead.
"I feel really terrible about all the people who died, so I feel guilty about celebrating, but I can't help it."
As of Tuesday evening, Cortis hadn't spoken with her uncle to hear details about his harrowing ordeal.
Fresh from watching coverage of the Trade Center burning, Anlauf said she knew right away the incident outside her hotel room was a deliberate attack on the Pentagon.
"Absolutely, even before the plane hit I knew that this wasn't an accident. That plane had to purposefully swoop around our hotel to hit (the Pentagon). There was no doubt in my mind, given that we were near the Pentagon, that this was an attack."
Jeff didn't feel the impact of the plane crash as directly as his wife. He was attending an environmental meeting on the second floor of the hotel when the plane struck the Pentagon.
About five seconds before the crash, Jeff said he heard the sound of "tin being dropped," likely as construction workers building an addition to the hotel saw the plane and dropped their building materials.
"Then, about 5 seconds later, the whole hotel shook," Jeff recalled. "I could feel it moving. We said 'Oh, my gosh, what's going on?' "
The hotel was evacuated, and Jeff and other meeting participants were shuttled outside the building. Deb fled her room immediately after the blast, searching frantically for her husband.
"There was a sense of panic in the air. I was real scared," she said. "After the fireball, I just took off. I just ran for the elevator and went to try to find my husband."
Deb found Jeff minutes later and updated him on the attacks that had transpired during the previous hour. Because a five-story building between their hotel and the Pentagon blocked his view, Jeff didn't realize a plane had crashed into this country's national defense nerve center until his panic-stricken wife described the incident.
The couple soon joined hundreds of other people in front of the hotel. Shortly afterward, an F-16 fighter jet flew overhead, causing most of the crowd to fall to the ground in terror, Jeff said.
"At that time people were pretty scared," he said. "We were all waiting for something else to happen."
After a short time people evacuated from the burning Pentagon joined the crowd, many of them distraught and extremely shaken up by the crash and the ensuing fire in the building.
"It was just absolute chaos," Deb said of the scene in the minutes after the crash. "There were people everywhere in the streets outside crying, wondering if their loved ones were OK. It seemed like the world was ending."
Amid the calamity, the couple said they tried to comfort as many people as they could.
"I held onto a woman outside who came from the Pentagon that was just a total wreck," Jeff said. "It was hard to comfort everybody because so many people were really shook up."
As firefighters continued to battle the blaze this morning, Deb gazed from her hotel room out at the wreckage, staring at the gaping hole in the side of the Pentagon as she contemplated Tuesday's events.
"Strangely enough, I was able to sleep last night," she said. "It was just such a long, long stressful day. You wouldn't believe how tired I was.
"You go through everything. You shake. You're hot and you're cold. It's such an unbelievable experience. You can't compare it to anything else."

1. Témoignage sourcé? Si oui, indication de la source.

Le témoignage est rapporté par le journal Leader Telegram : http://web.archive.org/web/200303241715 … l.asp?ID=7

2. L'identité du témoin est-elle connue et démontrée?

L'identité du témoin est rapportée par les journalistes. De plus un autre site les évoque pour avoir gagné un prix, le Self-Help Lake Volunteer : http://web.archive.org/web/200701171857 … e=1yrpatch

3. Témoignage direct ou indirect?



4. Fonction ou métier du témoin?



5. Date du/des témoignage?



6. Date de publication du témoignage?



7. Localisation du témoin?



8. A-t-il vu un aéronef?



9. Quel type d’aéronef?



10. A-t-il identifié un Boeing 757 de la compagnie AA?



11. Description visuelle d'un autre aéronef à l'approche du Pentagone?



12. Donne-t-il des indications relatives à la présence d'un second aéronef?



13. Donne-t-il des indications sonores en rapport avec l'approche de l’aéronef?



14. Donne-t-il des indications relatives à la trajectoire de l’aéronef?



15. A-t-il vu un impact de l’aéronef? si oui, description visuelle?



16. Impact direct dans la façade ou impact antérieur au sol?



17. Donne-t-il une description sonore ou autre de l'impact?



18. Donne-t-il une description des dégâts à l’aéronef ou au bâtiment?



19. A-t-il vu l’aéronef heurter les lampadaires? Dans l'affirmative, nombre de lampadaires + localisation +description physique?



20. A-t-il entendu une ou plusieurs explosions postérieures à l'explosion initiale?



21. Le témoin peut-il être considéré comme indépendant de l'accusation?



22. Le témoin a-t-il donné plusieurs versions de son témoignage? Ces versions sont-elles compatibles?



23. Le témoignage présente-t-il des indices objectifs de fabrication ou d'invraisemblance?

Une critique trouvée sur Internet :

The time 8:40 a.m.is given by the reporters. Deb Anlauf says she left for her room shortly before 9:30 a.m. Since the hotel is only one building and there are elevators it has probably taken less than 5 minutes to get to the room and certainly not 10-15 minutes. In several of the articles one finds traces of the journalists helping the witnesses give the right picture including the right aeroplane. Here it is the right time, the one the majority of articles reported.

Concerning the claim she makes that the object was so close that she felt like she could almost touch it there are some reasons why this is not so unless there were two objects or there was a bridging of two variant realities with the object in one reality passing by the Hotel, and in the other clipping some lamppost to the South along 395.  I do not know how much of 4th density is available around the Pentagon. But to give a perspective of how far she was I went to study some photographs available from other sites but embedded in one post in the Introduction on page 1 or 2. There are maps with the two possible trajectories that of Deb Anlauf and William Middleton Sr, and that of the clipped lampposts. The angle difference is 20 degrees, or the equivalent of 3 minutes and 20 seconds on an old fashioned round wrist watch. If the distance to the Pentagon is about a mile we have that the distance to the other path from the position of the hotel is approximately 20/360 x 2 x 22/7 x 1mile = 44/126 of a mile which is again about 1/3 of mile or 536 meters, so in fact the two paths are quite apart even if the distance to the Pentagon is only half, Deborah Anlauf would be too far away to be able to really touch the object.

Dernière modification par kikujitoh (28-09-2011 22:00:58)


"Les versions officielles des évenements historiques devraient systématiquement être remises en question." Howard Zinn

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#2 23-02-2011 18:26:25

jpdesm
Membre du forum
Date d'inscription: 10-05-2008
Messages: 235

Re: Deb Anlauf

Mrs. Deb Anlauf, resident of Colfax, Wisconsin, was in her 14th floor of the Sheraton Hotel [located 1.6 mile from the explosion], (immediately west of the Navy Annex) when she heard a "loud roar": Suddenly I saw this plane right outside my window. You felt like you could touch it; it was that close. It was just incredible. "Then it shot straight across from where we are and flew right into the Pentagon. It was just this huge fireball that crashed into the wall (of the Pentagon). When it hit, the whole hotel shook. (...) Jeff didn't feel the impact of the plane crash as directly as his wife. He was attending an environmental meeting on the second floor of the hotel when the plane struck the Pentagon. About five seconds before the crash, Jeff said he heard the sound of "tin being dropped," likely as construction workers building an addition to the hotel saw the plane and dropped their building materials. "Then, about 5 seconds later, the whole hotel shook," Jeff recalled. "I could feel it moving. We said 'Oh, my gosh, what's going on?' "
http://www.leadertelegram.com/specialre … l.asp?ID=7

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#3 23-02-2011 20:45:04

charmord
Membre du forum
Lieu: Brussels DC
Date d'inscription: 05-12-2006
Messages: 8287

Re: Deb Anlauf

Le lien ne fonctionne plus hélas.

L'article complet se lit comme suit : http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=1140

Area woman watched as Pentagon exploded
By Julian Emerson and Eric Lindquist

Like millions of people in this shocked nation, Deb Anlauf spent Tuesday morning staring in disbelief at a TV screen, watching smoke billow from the World Trade Center in New York City.

Then, at about 8:40 a.m. CDT, the largest terrorist action in this country's history hit closer to home for Anlauf and her husband, Jeff.

The couple, who moved to Colfax from Australia four months ago, were at the Sheraton National Hotel in Arlington, Va., less than two blocks from the Pentagon when Deb Anlauf saw "a sight I never imagined I'd see."

Anlauf was watching TV coverage of the Trade Center burning shortly before 9:30 a.m. when she decided to return to her 14th-floor room from another part of the hotel. Once in her room, she heard a "loud roar" and looked out the window to see what was going on.

"Suddenly I saw this plane right outside my window," Anlauf said during a telephone interview from her hotel room this morning. "You felt like you could touch it; it was that close. It was just incredible.

"Then it shot straight across from where we are and flew right into the Pentagon. It was just this huge fireball that crashed into the wall (of the Pentagon). When it hit, the whole hotel shook."


The shock waves of that same crash were felt in the Chippewa Valley, where an Eau Claire woman feared for the safety of her uncle, a Pentagon employee.

Upon learning that her beloved uncle was injured -- but not killed -- in Tuesday's terrorist attack, Kelly Cortis of Eau Claire wept with joy.

The tears burst forth after the emotion of several frantic hours hoping for the best - but fearing the worst -- about her uncle, Carl Psistner, whose job was so secret that all he ever could tell Cortis about his livelihood was that he worked for the U.S. Navy at the Pentagon.

While Cortis was unsuccessful in learning anything about her uncle's condition from a Navy intelligence hot line Tuesday, she finally heard from her grandmother in Connecticut that Psistner received 150 stitches in his face and suffered a broken arm and some burns as a result of the explosion.

"At least he's alive. That's all that matters," said Cortis, 24, who moved from Connecticut to Eau Claire in March.
The relief she felt was incredible upon learning that her only uncle - a man who raised her like a father -- had survived the attack, Cortis said.

"Oh, my God, you don't even know," she said Tuesday evening. "I'm so glad he's OK. I was so scared he was dead.

"I feel really terrible about all the people who died, so I feel guilty about celebrating, but I can't help it."

As of Tuesday evening, Cortis hadn't spoken with her uncle to hear details about his harrowing ordeal.
Fresh from watching coverage of the Trade Center burning, Anlauf said she knew right away the incident outside her hotel room was a deliberate attack on the Pentagon.

"Absolutely, even before the plane hit I knew that this wasn't an accident. That plane had to purposefully swoop around our hotel to hit (the Pentagon). There was no doubt in my mind, given that we were near the Pentagon, that this was an attack."

Jeff didn't feel the impact of the plane crash as directly as his wife. He was attending an environmental meeting on the second floor of the hotel when the plane struck the Pentagon.

About five seconds before the crash, Jeff said he heard the sound of "tin being dropped," likely as construction workers building an addition to the hotel saw the plane and dropped their building materials.

"Then, about 5 seconds later, the whole hotel shook," Jeff recalled. "I could feel it moving. We said 'Oh, my gosh, what's going on?' "

The hotel was evacuated, and Jeff and other meeting participants were shuttled outside the building. Deb fled her room immediately after the blast, searching frantically for her husband.

"There was a sense of panic in the air. I was real scared," she said. "After the fireball, I just took off. I just ran for the elevator and went to try to find my husband."

Deb found Jeff minutes later and updated him on the attacks that had transpired during the previous hour. Because a five-story building between their hotel and the Pentagon blocked his view, Jeff didn't realize a plane had crashed into this country's national defense nerve center until his panic-stricken wife described the incident.

The couple soon joined hundreds of other people in front of the hotel. Shortly afterward, an F-16 fighter jet flew overhead, causing most of the crowd to fall to the ground in terror, Jeff said.

"At that time people were pretty scared," he said. "We were all waiting for something else to happen."
After a short time people evacuated from the burning Pentagon joined the crowd, many of them distraught and extremely shaken up by the crash and the ensuing fire in the building.

"It was just absolute chaos," Deb said of the scene in the minutes after the crash. "There were people everywhere in the streets outside crying, wondering if their loved ones were OK. It seemed like the world was ending."
Amid the calamity, the couple said they tried to comfort as many people as they could.

"I held onto a woman outside who came from the Pentagon that was just a total wreck," Jeff said. "It was hard to comfort everybody because so many people were really shook up."

As firefighters continued to battle the blaze this morning, Deb gazed from her hotel room out at the wreckage, staring at the gaping hole in the side of the Pentagon as she contemplated Tuesday's events.

"Strangely enough, I was able to sleep last night," she said. "It was just such a long, long stressful day. You wouldn't believe how tired I was.

"You go through everything. You shake. You're hot and you're cold. It's such an unbelievable experience. You can't compare it to anything else
."

Ainsi chacun pourra juger ce qui est signifiant pour répondre aux questions de la grille.

Puisque vous n'aimez pas la façon dont ceux qui s'acquittent habituellement de cette tâche répondent aux questions, pourquoi ne vous lanceriez-vous pas, monsieur jpdsm?
Ou MMF?

Dernière modification par charmord (23-02-2011 22:43:04)


La manière la plus sûre de corrompre une jeunesse est de l'instruire a tenir en plus haute estime ceux qui pensent de même que ceux qui pensent différemment."

Friedrich Nietzsche

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#4 23-02-2011 20:52:32

Larez
Responsable du forum
Lieu: Bourgogne
Date d'inscription: 10-05-2009
Messages: 6548

Re: Deb Anlauf

Ce serait bien de proposer une traduction pour les non-anglophones ... histoire qu'ils puissent s'intéresser au débat.

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#5 23-02-2011 23:32:21

kikujitoh
Membre de Soutien
Lieu: Air Force One
Date d'inscription: 07-02-2009
Messages: 4797

Re: Deb Anlauf

Non larez, on ne peut pas tout traduire. Seules les synthèses doivent êtres traduites. Quiconque s'intéresse au débat des témoignages sans savoir lire l'anglais ne peut pas apporter grand chose, dsl. De plus c'est un travail d'analyse que l'on fait, c'est pas pour faire plaisir.


"Les versions officielles des évenements historiques devraient systématiquement être remises en question." Howard Zinn

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#6 24-02-2011 09:31:13

MagicalMysteryFlights
Membre du forum
Date d'inscription: 31-10-2007
Messages: 1765

Re: Deb Anlauf

charmord a écrit:

Le lien ne fonctionne plus hélas.

L'article complet se lit comme suit : http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=1140

Area woman watched as Pentagon exploded
By Julian Emerson and Eric Lindquist

Like millions of people in this shocked nation, Deb Anlauf spent Tuesday morning staring in disbelief at a TV screen, watching smoke billow from the World Trade Center in New York City.

Then, at about 8:40 a.m. CDT, the largest terrorist action in this country's history hit closer to home for Anlauf and her husband, Jeff.

The couple, who moved to Colfax from Australia four months ago, were at the Sheraton National Hotel in Arlington, Va., less than two blocks from the Pentagon when Deb Anlauf saw "a sight I never imagined I'd see."

Anlauf was watching TV coverage of the Trade Center burning shortly before 9:30 a.m. when she decided to return to her 14th-floor room from another part of the hotel. Once in her room, she heard a "loud roar" and looked out the window to see what was going on.

"Suddenly I saw this plane right outside my window," Anlauf said during a telephone interview from her hotel room this morning. "You felt like you could touch it; it was that close. It was just incredible.

"Then it shot straight across from where we are and flew right into the Pentagon. It was just this huge fireball that crashed into the wall (of the Pentagon). When it hit, the whole hotel shook."


The shock waves of that same crash were felt in the Chippewa Valley, where an Eau Claire woman feared for the safety of her uncle, a Pentagon employee.

Upon learning that her beloved uncle was injured -- but not killed -- in Tuesday's terrorist attack, Kelly Cortis of Eau Claire wept with joy.

The tears burst forth after the emotion of several frantic hours hoping for the best - but fearing the worst -- about her uncle, Carl Psistner, whose job was so secret that all he ever could tell Cortis about his livelihood was that he worked for the U.S. Navy at the Pentagon.

While Cortis was unsuccessful in learning anything about her uncle's condition from a Navy intelligence hot line Tuesday, she finally heard from her grandmother in Connecticut that Psistner received 150 stitches in his face and suffered a broken arm and some burns as a result of the explosion.

"At least he's alive. That's all that matters," said Cortis, 24, who moved from Connecticut to Eau Claire in March.
The relief she felt was incredible upon learning that her only uncle - a man who raised her like a father -- had survived the attack, Cortis said.

"Oh, my God, you don't even know," she said Tuesday evening. "I'm so glad he's OK. I was so scared he was dead.

"I feel really terrible about all the people who died, so I feel guilty about celebrating, but I can't help it."

As of Tuesday evening, Cortis hadn't spoken with her uncle to hear details about his harrowing ordeal.
Fresh from watching coverage of the Trade Center burning, Anlauf said she knew right away the incident outside her hotel room was a deliberate attack on the Pentagon.

"Absolutely, even before the plane hit I knew that this wasn't an accident. That plane had to purposefully swoop around our hotel to hit (the Pentagon). There was no doubt in my mind, given that we were near the Pentagon, that this was an attack."

Jeff didn't feel the impact of the plane crash as directly as his wife. He was attending an environmental meeting on the second floor of the hotel when the plane struck the Pentagon.

About five seconds before the crash, Jeff said he heard the sound of "tin being dropped," likely as construction workers building an addition to the hotel saw the plane and dropped their building materials.

"Then, about 5 seconds later, the whole hotel shook," Jeff recalled. "I could feel it moving. We said 'Oh, my gosh, what's going on?' "

The hotel was evacuated, and Jeff and other meeting participants were shuttled outside the building. Deb fled her room immediately after the blast, searching frantically for her husband.

"There was a sense of panic in the air. I was real scared," she said. "After the fireball, I just took off. I just ran for the elevator and went to try to find my husband."

Deb found Jeff minutes later and updated him on the attacks that had transpired during the previous hour. Because a five-story building between their hotel and the Pentagon blocked his view, Jeff didn't realize a plane had crashed into this country's national defense nerve center until his panic-stricken wife described the incident.

The couple soon joined hundreds of other people in front of the hotel. Shortly afterward, an F-16 fighter jet flew overhead, causing most of the crowd to fall to the ground in terror, Jeff said.

"At that time people were pretty scared," he said. "We were all waiting for something else to happen."
After a short time people evacuated from the burning Pentagon joined the crowd, many of them distraught and extremely shaken up by the crash and the ensuing fire in the building.

"It was just absolute chaos," Deb said of the scene in the minutes after the crash. "There were people everywhere in the streets outside crying, wondering if their loved ones were OK. It seemed like the world was ending."
Amid the calamity, the couple said they tried to comfort as many people as they could.

"I held onto a woman outside who came from the Pentagon that was just a total wreck," Jeff said. "It was hard to comfort everybody because so many people were really shook up."

As firefighters continued to battle the blaze this morning, Deb gazed from her hotel room out at the wreckage, staring at the gaping hole in the side of the Pentagon as she contemplated Tuesday's events.

"Strangely enough, I was able to sleep last night," she said. "It was just such a long, long stressful day. You wouldn't believe how tired I was.

"You go through everything. You shake. You're hot and you're cold. It's such an unbelievable experience. You can't compare it to anything else
."

Ainsi chacun pourra juger ce qui est signifiant pour répondre aux questions de la grille.

Puisque vous n'aimez pas la façon dont ceux qui s'acquittent habituellement de cette tâche répondent aux questions, pourquoi ne vous lanceriez-vous pas, monsieur jpdsm?
Ou MMF?

Parce que je ne suis pas d'accord avec la présence des deux derniers paragraphes qui visent juger la fiabilité du témoignage et surtout établir une possible falsification, jetant d'emblée une suspicion. On devrait se limiter aux infos disponibles sans aucun commentaire. Et établir ailleurs un fil dédié à l'évaluation.

Je pense aussi qu'une évaluation de fiabilité bornée au seul témoignage en cours n'est pas suffisante pour juger. On ne peut évaluer un témoignage de façon complète que dans le contexte des autres témoignages voisins; Il n'existe nulle part un fil associé permettant d'établir les concordances et les contradictions mutuelles de témoignages.

Pour moi, dire de façon lapidaire et arbitraire que David Marra ment parce qu'il dit que l'avion a "cartwheellé", ou que Surcherman fait partie du complot parce qu'il a hésité entre commercial, business jet suite à la question "was it a commercial jet" est une façon très superficielle de juger de la validité des témoignages.

Si on prend en considération l'ensemble des témoignages les uns par rapport aux autres, et par exemple en ramenant le cas Sucherman au cas Campos, on commence à se douter que la communauté journalistique s'était rendu compte qu'en marge des témoignages majoritaires d'avion de ligne, il existait une minorité de témoignages d'un mystérieux business jet, et Sucherman ne pouvait pas l'ignorer.
D'où le lapsus. Pour toi et plein d'autres, ça prouve qu'il n'y avait pas de Boeing et qu'ils mentent tous, pour moi ça prouve qu'"on" leur a demandé discrètement d'étouffer l'histoire du business jet et que ça n'infirme pas celle du Boeing.

Alors nos vues sont tellement éloignées que je ne me vois pas vous fournir une traduction qui ne servira qu'à alimenter les deux derniers paragraphes visiblement destinés à disqualifier les témoignages de crash de Boeing.

Maintenant, si vous ne biaisez pas les traductions, alors tout ira bien. Je n'interviens pas souvent sur ce fil et c'est volontaire.

Dernière modification par MagicalMysteryFlights (24-02-2011 09:32:26)


"Nier les faits parce qu'on les croit incompréhensibles est certainement plus stérile du point de vue du progrès de la connaissance que d'élaborer des hypothèses." Claude Levy-Strauss

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#7 24-02-2011 09:44:48

charmord
Membre du forum
Lieu: Brussels DC
Date d'inscription: 05-12-2006
Messages: 8287

Re: Deb Anlauf

Roo, misère. L'entreprise continue.

1. J'ai mis tout l'article. Je n'ai pas encore vu en quoi l'inclusion des deux paragraphes pourrait établir une possible falsification mais je promets d'y être très attentif!

2. Pour un nième rappel, l'objectif dans cette phase de l'analyse des témoignages est de remplir le plus objectivement possible les cases de la grille d'évaluation. C'est dans un second temps que, sur base des résultats compilés, l'on pourra les intégrer dans un tableau excell permettant d'établir les discordances entre les uns et les autres. Le fait que la grille de critère soit destiné à un travail de comparaison ultérieure devrait d'ailleurs inciter chaque participant à cette oeuvre collective à ne pas y intégrer trop de données et à aller droit au but.

3. Je n'ai fait que relever le lapsus de Sucherman et n'en ai pas tiré de conclusion quant à la présence ou l'absence d'un Boeing, commuter plane ou les deux. Si tu es d'un avis contraire, prouve-le ou tais-toi, par pitié mad

4. On ne te demande pas une traduction mais de remplir les tableaux puisque ru les critiques fréquemment, et toujours par des arguments biaisés ou éminemment subjectifs. Lance-toi

Dernière modification par charmord (24-02-2011 09:47:55)


La manière la plus sûre de corrompre une jeunesse est de l'instruire a tenir en plus haute estime ceux qui pensent de même que ceux qui pensent différemment."

Friedrich Nietzsche

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#8 28-09-2011 22:05:04

kikujitoh
Membre de Soutien
Lieu: Air Force One
Date d'inscription: 07-02-2009
Messages: 4797

Re: Deb Anlauf

Prochain témoignage à analyser.


"Les versions officielles des évenements historiques devraient systématiquement être remises en question." Howard Zinn

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